Thinking about you, thinking about Taylor Swift. First, I am a 66-year-old male who primarily listens to Americana, jam bands, indie rock, and jazz. However, I do have a soft spot for the occasional pop star, such as Swift, Gaga, and Madonna. I have a theory that musicians are either artists (like Dylan) or entertainers (like Madonna), and very few are both (like Prince). Swift is an entertainer, by my categorization. I think I agree with everything you said here. Swift's original innovation was to take an adult genre, country, and give it a teenage perspective. She then leveraged her success to become a pop star. She is an entertainer without a drop of artist in her. As much as I like Showgirl (it has been on near-constant rotation since its release), I also recognize that it is unnecessary, just like every Stones album since Some Girls. But I still appreciate its existence (like I appreciated Voodoo Lounge when it came out), because as a fan, I can only listen to 1989 so many times. As long as she can freshen up the earworms (Showgirl), I am all in.
I think there's a parallel between Taylor Swift and Rivers Cuomo. Both are iconic to pretty much a whole generation, and both made a conscious choice to pursue popularity, and arguably both had a kind of artistic arrested development. I really don't know how far the analogy works beyond that, to be honest, but I think there's *something* there.
(Obviously, Swift is on another stratosphere compared to Rivers; compared to her, he's like a minor leaguer and she's like Aaron Judge. By the metric of success, which is clearly a measure that is extraordinarily important to both of them, they are not in the same universe.)
Respectively, Steven, w/r/t the Defector article, I think you're conflating "greed" with "ambition." The examples you give about Swift moving from place to place to advance her career, to throw the biggest tour ever, etc., all scream ambition, while the things that bother McKinney are the multiple versions of the same album upon release, and then the second/third drops of the "expanded" album mere days after the official release, and really, the flood of new material that seems as though Swift could use the musical equivalent of an editor -- said flood of material coming with the expectation of her fan base to buy minor variants of the same thing. I think there's a good argument to be made suggesting that ambition has crossed over into greed in Swift's case, and perhaps it shows in the quality of her work if longtime fans are noticing.
I added paragraphs as Pete McCutchen very kindly pointed out that this Taylor Swift analysis needed paragraphs.
Steve, I have enjoyed your content for many years, but your discussions of Taylor Swift frustrate me. First, I will give my priors as a middle age man who fell in love with Taylor Swift's music after the release of Folklore, but, in the past, mainly listened to punk, post-punk, indie, and classic rock.
You seem to have completely forgotten about Folklore and Evermore when discussing Taylor Swift. Those were indie pop albums written with Aaron Dessner in 2020, which I am sure that Taylor thought would be very niche and not increase her popularity. At that time, Lover (2019 album) had disappointed, and I think Taylor, as a 30 year old, realized that she was on the downside of the pop mountain.
The pandemic gave her a chance to take a break from her pop obligations and focus on non-commercial things - making 2 indie pop albums and re-recording her music as a reaction to being unable to purchase her masters (remember, re-recordings have never had commercial viability before Taylor Swift). I truly think she thought, at the time, those would be niche products that would further lower the temperature on her celebrity (as her celebrity already started to wane with the lukewarm receptions to Reputation and Lover).
This is a similar trajectory to other huge artists that have taken a detour after being at the top. Except for her, her artistic detours (indie folk and re-recording her music) made her more popular than ever. You noted that The Beatles took a left turn in 1966 and 1967 by quitting touring and making a very challenging album with Sergeant Pepper and, unexpectedly, quitting touring and making a very challenging album made them bigger than ever. I think the Beatles is the comparison that makes the most sense. Taylor took a left turn in 2020 by releasing 2 indie folk albums and started her re-recordings and that unexpectedly made her more popular than ever.
Folklore opened her up to a whole new non-pop fanbase (including 49 year old male me), with its incredible songwriting, and the re-recordings reconnected her with her old pop and country fanbase in a way she did not expect. I feel like this all came together with her release of All Too Much the 10 minute version in late 2021 as part of the Red re-recording. With the new Folklore and Evermore fans on board, she released a song that really made her old fans care about the re-recordings (as the re-recording of Fearless earlier that year had a fairly muted reaction), and both fanbases combined to make All Too Well 10 minute version and the Red re-recording a massive hit.
At this point, Taylor used her work ethic to capitalize on her new, unexpected bigger fanbase by releasing a new pop banger in Midnights (2022) and by embarking on the greatest most fan focused tour in history (the Eras tour) in 2023 and 2024. On this tour, she performed about 220 of her 228 songs at some point during the tour. Just an incredible work ethic to give her fans 2 new unique acoustic songs every night. Something I have never seen in the rock world (would love to see U2 attempt to play 98 percent of their catalogue during a tour), and something I never see rock critics who criticize her comment on. She was doing a 3.5 hour show like Springsteen and McCartney (who she said was her inspiration for the 3.5 hour show) and was doing it in heels and with costume changes. Incredible!
Then, on top of that, she recorded 2 new albums while on her 2 year tour (Tortured Poets and Showgirl) and integrated the Tortured Poets songs into the tour with a whole new choreographed 20 minute section. Just an unimaginable work ethic to deliver new songs and new show choreography to her fans while also giving her fans one of the greatest pop shows in history.
In the end, I think she tried to downshift her popularity in 2020, but the quality of Folklore and Evermore and the re-recordings propelled her to even greater heights and, then, she used her work ethic to give her fans a once in a lifetime concert as a thank you for supporting her left turns to such an incredible degree. Now, she is just doing what she wants. She likes recording break up albums, so she recorded a sprawling break up album with Tortured Poets. She likes recording with Max Martin, so she recorded another Max Martin album with Showgirl. Her current 2nd fame peak (1989 was her first peak) is not due to greed, but just a side effect of great artistry and an incredible work ethic and a willingness to shamelessly market. I will concede the third point, but I think that is the least important of the three.
Took this original comment out and added paragraph breaks above. I just also wanted to tell Stephen I think you and Ian Cohen are great on your podcast. I always thought Ian was the best guest on Celebration Rock, so was very happy when you teamed up on Indiecast. I just don't agree on a single word that you two say about Taylor Swift or sports. But, everything else is awesome about the podcast!!
That was my first comment on Substack and probably will be my last. I have listened to Stephen on his last 2 podcasts and used to read him on AV Club. I just find his Taylor Swift views odd since I know he knows Folklore and Evermore exist. I didn't use paragraphs because I thought it would make it even longer!!
From my outsider perspective Taylor Swift seemed to be treated by her gigantic fanbase like a precious indie artist, and for whatever reason that seems to have worn off this record cycle. Maybe it's the famous football player fiance that has made her seem too much like the most popular girl in school. I don't really know. But if definitely seems like something has changed, and while I don't think we're in the midst of a full on backlash she's definitely at the end of her imperial period.
Reading through these comments and I cannot believe Folklore and Evermore are not mentioned once despite Folklore and Evermore being the most critically acclaimed albums of her career. I own over 3,000 albums and Folklore is a top 5 album for me. There is artistry in that album to me. I just can't stop playing it and it has been five years now.
FYI - I have spent about $70 buying multiple variants mainly to help her break Adele's record (I still buy CDs, but usually one per record, not 6). I have the money, and I really think she deserves the record. It is similar to when I bought the very expensive deluxe Radiohead sets for In Rainbows and King of Limbs. It was unnecessary, but it is an artist I love, so I enjoy supporting them. I have a feeling middle age music nerds like me have helped her break the record.
I don't feel as bad for her with regard to fame as I do people like Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, or Elvis. Tswift has always been in the drivers seat whereas those other names I mentioned might have been here and there, but their careers were largely controlled by other people, and they became victims of their own fame in the end because their fame wasn't really on their terms like hers is. She's getting what she wants and if there's something she doesn't want, she has the power to push back on it.
I'm just glad people are starting to feel like they can take shots at her for putting out bad music, but it's almost too little too late at this point.
Maybe there was, but I doubt it. Shes not a child star whose family basically signed her over to her managers and label like many of the others,. she comes from a wealthy and savvy family who helped her control every aspect of her career and is part of why she's a billionaire now.
She was with Big Machine Records (run by Scott Borchetta) for the first six albums and he controlled her masters. She wanted to buy her masters after her contract was up (6 record contract), but was unable to. This is why she did the re-record project (Taylor's Versions) in the 2020's to reclaim her first six albums. This re-record project and the Eras tour was an unprecedented success, which allowed her to buy back her masters in 2025 with only 4 of the 6 re-records completed. That is a typical music industry story where an artist is only able to gain full control of their career when they reach the heights of superstardom. Elvis Presley could have done the same, but he was too loyal to Colonel Parker and never broke free from his control. Fortunately, Taylor was able to break free from Big Machine and Scott Borchetta.
Taylor Swift is more well adjusted than most teenage stars. She is very close to her mom, dad, and brother, and she runs her music career like a family business. I think it is admirable, and her family's support and integrity is an example to others.
Taylor Swift's last album - Tortured Poets - had similar reviews to this one - fairly mixed. I am a fan of both Tortured Poets and Showgirl because I like the artist. I tend to like most albums by my very favorite artists.
I personally think music criticism is dead. We can all play the albums on Spotify and determine the worth of the new album for ourselves. I enjoy listening to Steve Hyden and reading his critiques, but I haven't bought a new album because of critics since Taylor Swift's Folklore and that was mainly because I was interested in her songwriting partnership with the National's Aaron Dessner. If I want to know if I like an album or not, I just play it a couple of times on Spotify. As I age, I realize music consumption is very subjective. I mainly listen to vocal jazz from before 1960 these days because I enjoy it and it is easy to listen to while I work.
I treasure Taylor’s music from 2009 to (roughly) 2012, where she sounded like she was in love with music and the sounds she could wring out of her guitar.
The only thing it seems she remotely cares about since 1989 is expanding her wallet.
In many ways 1989 was her Black Album; it broke her to EVERYONE, but it also refocused her music - like The Black Album for Metallica - to striving for relevance and chart domination. The thrill was diminished for me, because she wasn’t trying to reach people - she was trying to set ephemeral music records, penning equally ephemeral songs.
Now I think we can reasonably assume that thrill has been long gone for her as well.
True fact: I saw Taylor Swift when she was an opening act for Brad Paisley. (With Kellie Pickler, who actually performed after Taylor.) She wasn’t yet TAYLOR SWIFT, but she was clearly a charismatic performer with a lot of charm and sweetness with her swingin’ screen doors and Tim McGraw fangirling. However, she hardly seemed to be wringing sound out of her guitar; her guitar playing always seemed reasonably competent but also pretty ordinary to me. She’s hardly going to make anyone forget Glen Campbell, or Brad Paisley for that matter.
Also, I thought then she was obviously manufacturing her own image, though she had fewer resources to do it with then.
I just mean the songs themselves. I’m not calling her Stevie Ray Vaughan. “Dear John,” which may not be completely played by her, was still written to mockingly play blues flourishes to highlight who the topic of her contempt is.
That type of creativity and tastefulness is completely missing from her music now. And imo guitar is at least as much about creativity and tastefulness as it is about being able to nail a 100% in Guitar Hero.
Thinking about you, thinking about Taylor Swift. First, I am a 66-year-old male who primarily listens to Americana, jam bands, indie rock, and jazz. However, I do have a soft spot for the occasional pop star, such as Swift, Gaga, and Madonna. I have a theory that musicians are either artists (like Dylan) or entertainers (like Madonna), and very few are both (like Prince). Swift is an entertainer, by my categorization. I think I agree with everything you said here. Swift's original innovation was to take an adult genre, country, and give it a teenage perspective. She then leveraged her success to become a pop star. She is an entertainer without a drop of artist in her. As much as I like Showgirl (it has been on near-constant rotation since its release), I also recognize that it is unnecessary, just like every Stones album since Some Girls. But I still appreciate its existence (like I appreciated Voodoo Lounge when it came out), because as a fan, I can only listen to 1989 so many times. As long as she can freshen up the earworms (Showgirl), I am all in.
I think there's a parallel between Taylor Swift and Rivers Cuomo. Both are iconic to pretty much a whole generation, and both made a conscious choice to pursue popularity, and arguably both had a kind of artistic arrested development. I really don't know how far the analogy works beyond that, to be honest, but I think there's *something* there.
(Obviously, Swift is on another stratosphere compared to Rivers; compared to her, he's like a minor leaguer and she's like Aaron Judge. By the metric of success, which is clearly a measure that is extraordinarily important to both of them, they are not in the same universe.)
Respectively, Steven, w/r/t the Defector article, I think you're conflating "greed" with "ambition." The examples you give about Swift moving from place to place to advance her career, to throw the biggest tour ever, etc., all scream ambition, while the things that bother McKinney are the multiple versions of the same album upon release, and then the second/third drops of the "expanded" album mere days after the official release, and really, the flood of new material that seems as though Swift could use the musical equivalent of an editor -- said flood of material coming with the expectation of her fan base to buy minor variants of the same thing. I think there's a good argument to be made suggesting that ambition has crossed over into greed in Swift's case, and perhaps it shows in the quality of her work if longtime fans are noticing.
Perfectly stated. Steven's response to that piece kind of bothered me and you nailed exactly why.
the same dude did the Hotline TNT and Fust albums? damn those are my two favorites of the year. gotta read that.
I added paragraphs as Pete McCutchen very kindly pointed out that this Taylor Swift analysis needed paragraphs.
Steve, I have enjoyed your content for many years, but your discussions of Taylor Swift frustrate me. First, I will give my priors as a middle age man who fell in love with Taylor Swift's music after the release of Folklore, but, in the past, mainly listened to punk, post-punk, indie, and classic rock.
You seem to have completely forgotten about Folklore and Evermore when discussing Taylor Swift. Those were indie pop albums written with Aaron Dessner in 2020, which I am sure that Taylor thought would be very niche and not increase her popularity. At that time, Lover (2019 album) had disappointed, and I think Taylor, as a 30 year old, realized that she was on the downside of the pop mountain.
The pandemic gave her a chance to take a break from her pop obligations and focus on non-commercial things - making 2 indie pop albums and re-recording her music as a reaction to being unable to purchase her masters (remember, re-recordings have never had commercial viability before Taylor Swift). I truly think she thought, at the time, those would be niche products that would further lower the temperature on her celebrity (as her celebrity already started to wane with the lukewarm receptions to Reputation and Lover).
This is a similar trajectory to other huge artists that have taken a detour after being at the top. Except for her, her artistic detours (indie folk and re-recording her music) made her more popular than ever. You noted that The Beatles took a left turn in 1966 and 1967 by quitting touring and making a very challenging album with Sergeant Pepper and, unexpectedly, quitting touring and making a very challenging album made them bigger than ever. I think the Beatles is the comparison that makes the most sense. Taylor took a left turn in 2020 by releasing 2 indie folk albums and started her re-recordings and that unexpectedly made her more popular than ever.
Folklore opened her up to a whole new non-pop fanbase (including 49 year old male me), with its incredible songwriting, and the re-recordings reconnected her with her old pop and country fanbase in a way she did not expect. I feel like this all came together with her release of All Too Much the 10 minute version in late 2021 as part of the Red re-recording. With the new Folklore and Evermore fans on board, she released a song that really made her old fans care about the re-recordings (as the re-recording of Fearless earlier that year had a fairly muted reaction), and both fanbases combined to make All Too Well 10 minute version and the Red re-recording a massive hit.
At this point, Taylor used her work ethic to capitalize on her new, unexpected bigger fanbase by releasing a new pop banger in Midnights (2022) and by embarking on the greatest most fan focused tour in history (the Eras tour) in 2023 and 2024. On this tour, she performed about 220 of her 228 songs at some point during the tour. Just an incredible work ethic to give her fans 2 new unique acoustic songs every night. Something I have never seen in the rock world (would love to see U2 attempt to play 98 percent of their catalogue during a tour), and something I never see rock critics who criticize her comment on. She was doing a 3.5 hour show like Springsteen and McCartney (who she said was her inspiration for the 3.5 hour show) and was doing it in heels and with costume changes. Incredible!
Then, on top of that, she recorded 2 new albums while on her 2 year tour (Tortured Poets and Showgirl) and integrated the Tortured Poets songs into the tour with a whole new choreographed 20 minute section. Just an unimaginable work ethic to deliver new songs and new show choreography to her fans while also giving her fans one of the greatest pop shows in history.
In the end, I think she tried to downshift her popularity in 2020, but the quality of Folklore and Evermore and the re-recordings propelled her to even greater heights and, then, she used her work ethic to give her fans a once in a lifetime concert as a thank you for supporting her left turns to such an incredible degree. Now, she is just doing what she wants. She likes recording break up albums, so she recorded a sprawling break up album with Tortured Poets. She likes recording with Max Martin, so she recorded another Max Martin album with Showgirl. Her current 2nd fame peak (1989 was her first peak) is not due to greed, but just a side effect of great artistry and an incredible work ethic and a willingness to shamelessly market. I will concede the third point, but I think that is the least important of the three.
Took this original comment out and added paragraph breaks above. I just also wanted to tell Stephen I think you and Ian Cohen are great on your podcast. I always thought Ian was the best guest on Celebration Rock, so was very happy when you teamed up on Indiecast. I just don't agree on a single word that you two say about Taylor Swift or sports. But, everything else is awesome about the podcast!!
James, paragraphs are your friend.
That was my first comment on Substack and probably will be my last. I have listened to Stephen on his last 2 podcasts and used to read him on AV Club. I just find his Taylor Swift views odd since I know he knows Folklore and Evermore exist. I didn't use paragraphs because I thought it would make it even longer!!
As Jay Z once said, “I’m not a businessman; I’m a business, man”
Same is true for T Swiz - she’s long been a corporate juggernaut
Every now and then she remembers to write a great song to accompany a quarterly earnings call
What a load of guff
From my outsider perspective Taylor Swift seemed to be treated by her gigantic fanbase like a precious indie artist, and for whatever reason that seems to have worn off this record cycle. Maybe it's the famous football player fiance that has made her seem too much like the most popular girl in school. I don't really know. But if definitely seems like something has changed, and while I don't think we're in the midst of a full on backlash she's definitely at the end of her imperial period.
Reading through these comments and I cannot believe Folklore and Evermore are not mentioned once despite Folklore and Evermore being the most critically acclaimed albums of her career. I own over 3,000 albums and Folklore is a top 5 album for me. There is artistry in that album to me. I just can't stop playing it and it has been five years now.
FYI - I have spent about $70 buying multiple variants mainly to help her break Adele's record (I still buy CDs, but usually one per record, not 6). I have the money, and I really think she deserves the record. It is similar to when I bought the very expensive deluxe Radiohead sets for In Rainbows and King of Limbs. It was unnecessary, but it is an artist I love, so I enjoy supporting them. I have a feeling middle age music nerds like me have helped her break the record.
Strong essay with lots of insights, delivered casually.
I don't feel as bad for her with regard to fame as I do people like Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, or Elvis. Tswift has always been in the drivers seat whereas those other names I mentioned might have been here and there, but their careers were largely controlled by other people, and they became victims of their own fame in the end because their fame wasn't really on their terms like hers is. She's getting what she wants and if there's something she doesn't want, she has the power to push back on it.
I'm just glad people are starting to feel like they can take shots at her for putting out bad music, but it's almost too little too late at this point.
just because you didn’t see the breakdown doesn’t mean there wasn’t one she is still a child star
Maybe there was, but I doubt it. Shes not a child star whose family basically signed her over to her managers and label like many of the others,. she comes from a wealthy and savvy family who helped her control every aspect of her career and is part of why she's a billionaire now.
She was with Big Machine Records (run by Scott Borchetta) for the first six albums and he controlled her masters. She wanted to buy her masters after her contract was up (6 record contract), but was unable to. This is why she did the re-record project (Taylor's Versions) in the 2020's to reclaim her first six albums. This re-record project and the Eras tour was an unprecedented success, which allowed her to buy back her masters in 2025 with only 4 of the 6 re-records completed. That is a typical music industry story where an artist is only able to gain full control of their career when they reach the heights of superstardom. Elvis Presley could have done the same, but he was too loyal to Colonel Parker and never broke free from his control. Fortunately, Taylor was able to break free from Big Machine and Scott Borchetta.
Taylor Swift is more well adjusted than most teenage stars. She is very close to her mom, dad, and brother, and she runs her music career like a family business. I think it is admirable, and her family's support and integrity is an example to others.
Taylor Swift's last album - Tortured Poets - had similar reviews to this one - fairly mixed. I am a fan of both Tortured Poets and Showgirl because I like the artist. I tend to like most albums by my very favorite artists.
I personally think music criticism is dead. We can all play the albums on Spotify and determine the worth of the new album for ourselves. I enjoy listening to Steve Hyden and reading his critiques, but I haven't bought a new album because of critics since Taylor Swift's Folklore and that was mainly because I was interested in her songwriting partnership with the National's Aaron Dessner. If I want to know if I like an album or not, I just play it a couple of times on Spotify. As I age, I realize music consumption is very subjective. I mainly listen to vocal jazz from before 1960 these days because I enjoy it and it is easy to listen to while I work.
I see your point but everything you said here still puts her in a much more advantaged position than most artists get.
I treasure Taylor’s music from 2009 to (roughly) 2012, where she sounded like she was in love with music and the sounds she could wring out of her guitar.
The only thing it seems she remotely cares about since 1989 is expanding her wallet.
In many ways 1989 was her Black Album; it broke her to EVERYONE, but it also refocused her music - like The Black Album for Metallica - to striving for relevance and chart domination. The thrill was diminished for me, because she wasn’t trying to reach people - she was trying to set ephemeral music records, penning equally ephemeral songs.
Now I think we can reasonably assume that thrill has been long gone for her as well.
Sound she could wring out of her guitar? Really?
True fact: I saw Taylor Swift when she was an opening act for Brad Paisley. (With Kellie Pickler, who actually performed after Taylor.) She wasn’t yet TAYLOR SWIFT, but she was clearly a charismatic performer with a lot of charm and sweetness with her swingin’ screen doors and Tim McGraw fangirling. However, she hardly seemed to be wringing sound out of her guitar; her guitar playing always seemed reasonably competent but also pretty ordinary to me. She’s hardly going to make anyone forget Glen Campbell, or Brad Paisley for that matter.
Also, I thought then she was obviously manufacturing her own image, though she had fewer resources to do it with then.
I just mean the songs themselves. I’m not calling her Stevie Ray Vaughan. “Dear John,” which may not be completely played by her, was still written to mockingly play blues flourishes to highlight who the topic of her contempt is.
That type of creativity and tastefulness is completely missing from her music now. And imo guitar is at least as much about creativity and tastefulness as it is about being able to nail a 100% in Guitar Hero.